Thursday, September 13, 2012

Where Two or More are Gathered...

Paul Moore, organizing pastor at the Chain of Lakes Church in Blaine, wrote an accurate account of the Presbytery meeting I attended the other night. It was the first Presbytery meeting I’ve been to in awhile. On several occasions throughout the meeting, the gathered body made references to trying to include more people in their 20s and 30s, but I was hard pressed to envision a room full of 20 and 30 year olds abiding the length and structure of a meeting that lasted nearly six hours not including the pre-Presbytery event.


It’s not that 20 and 30 year olds don’t care or aren’t willing to devote time and energy to something. It would be a mistake to attribute that sentiment to a group of folks who have already bucked the generational trend to leave the church altogether. But, six hours of sitting in a pew listening to reports doesn’t work for us. Based on the number of people still at the meeting at 9:30pm on Tuesday night, it’s not working for a lot of other people as well.


If we are going to get 20 and 30 year olds to agree to be Commissioners at our Presbytery meetings we are going to need to make changes in two distinct but interconnected areas, the first of which is in our individual churches, a topic for another post. The second, is the structure of the Presbytery meeting.

The Presbytery meeting was clearly unbalanced, favoring the work of the committees at the expense of the commissioner. The meeting progressed with committee after committee offering their report and bringing forth action items that were then debated, sometimes unnecessarily, in front of a group of people who had more or less at stake in the discussion. Commissioners were passive witnesses for most of the meeting except during times of debate.

Clearly this imbalance needs to be addressed. By giving too much weight to the needs of our committees we are actually undermining their work. I know this because I was there at 9:30pm when a message about a critical per capita issue was raised and too few commissioners were still around to receive it.

If our Presbytery meetings are going to be welcoming to 20 and 30 year olds (and perhaps even the rest of us) they must be conducted in a way that focuses less on reporting and more on action items. Debate is fine, but discussion that could have been conducted prior to the meeting will drive these folks crazy.

I recently met with a woman in her early 30s, Lisa, who is on our technology committee. At a prior meeting the committee had decided on a course of action that included transferring our Facebook population (over 200 people) from a personal group (mine, thank you very much) to an official Fan Page. The task was assigned to Lisa and she asked if I would be willing to help her. So, I agreed to meet her at her job for lunch.

At this meeting we didn’t start with a pencil and paper, drafting a plan, listing the elements that we would need to gather in order to make a great Facebook Fan page. Nope. As soon as I sat down, Lisa opened her browser and started an account. She grabbed an image off our website for our photo and started adding information about the church. From my iPhone, I called our administrative assistant to ask her to send Lisa images and information via email so we could add them to our page. In one hour we not only had an idea about what we wanted to do, we had an actual Facebook Fan page. 

This next generation is action oriented. If we are going to attract younger commissioners, we need to place more emphasis on the commissioner experience. How do commissioners receive critical updates? How do we organize ourselves to allow the great work of our committees to be heard and understood by everyone? How can we prove to folks that there is energy and imagination in our work? How are we going to recognize the Spirit moving within our organization in order to fearlessly follow it?

This is where I would start.

4:00pm  Committee Booths
5:00pm  Worship
5:30pm  Break bread (ie, dinner)
6:30pm  Action Items
7:30-8:00pm  Closing prayer

For the first hour of the meeting, I would allow committees to disseminate their reports, to the gathered community of commissioners, from tables or booths. Commissioners could peruse the booths at their own pace making sure to visit the committees that interest them the most. They would ask their questions of the committees prior to the meeting and share their insights and concerns directly with committee members who could then take those insights back to their committees. Committees might even decide to change course BEFORE bringing forth any action items that evening. At the end of the hour, the booths close.

“Decently and in order” does not have to mean linear. This hour long booth structure would cut out the passive elements of the evening and provide a process that is far more interactive, for everyone! Commissioners who spend 5 minutes at every booth could peruse 12 committees in 1 hour! Five minutes is a lot of time to get your questions answered and hear another’s perspective on any given issue, which brings me to my next point.

A booth structure would force committees to prepare a clear message. If you have only a few seconds to capture a commissioner’s attention and five minutes at most to discuss relevant issues, how would you present your information? How would you grab commissioner attention in the first place? What would you eliminate from your speech in order for the most critical information to be understood?

Yes, this would require that everyone come to the meeting prepared. Committee reports would become increasingly important, not less, because we would need to have access to the information that cannot be addressed at the meeting. Committees would have to create a plan in advance to capture the imagination of the commissioner. We should aspire to such a level.

Everyone at the meeting on Tuesday night, could have (should have?) read the faith statements from the candidates for ordination prior to the meeting. With a booth structure, commissioners could have posed their questions to the candidates personally. If they didn’t like a candidate’s answer, they would have had time to talk with the candidate (decently, of course) about it. We all like to be heard, but not everything we say needs to be heard by everyone.
A booth structure would allow for the free exchange of ideas and perspectives in the shortest amount of time by those who are most invested in an issue.
Next up would be worship. The elements of worship are all there at a Presbytery meeting…us gathered together in Christ’s name. So let’s gather, let’s proclaim the word, let’s respond to the word, and then let’s break bread together by sharing a meal. (One note: How great would it have been to hear the General Assembly report over dinner instead for an hour after worship at 8pm?) I realize that this recommendation messes with other people’s experience of worship, but it's my blog so I get to at least share my perspective.

The order of the evening is critical to me. We are ready to debate and vote on action items only after we have broken bread together. So after dinner, each committee that has an action item would come forward and present that item, providing their reasons for wanting to bring it to the gathered body. Perhaps representatives from these committees would articulate the different opinions that they learned about earlier in the evening when they were talking with other commissioners. It would be amazing to participate in an organization that freely acknowledged and honored our differences before the discussion even began!

Rather than listening to the candidates for ordination read their faith statements and half a dozen people ask their questions of each candidate, the candidates could have responded to what they heard and talked about earlier that night, giving us all a preview of their leadership style and ability to truly listen. Rather than taking up precious time jogging to the front for a cursory “attagirl” from the Presbytery, I could have had an entire hour to answer questions and get congratulations from folks who are following my journey. Rather than pushing back a new church development issue (Church Growth!) until 9:45pm or postponing Mission and Witness altogether (Really!? Mission and Witness? What is more important folks?), we could have heard from their passionate leaders. Perhaps their passion could be our passion too.

I’m not upset. I’m one of those 30-somethings that found the church as an adult. There is something about it that works for me. But I come with no historical baggage. I do not need things to be done a certain way in order to find God. I find God in the reasons. Can anyone truly make a case for why our last meeting required us to sit in a pew for six hours? Isn’t it time to try something new?

12 comments:

  1. Thank you Sarah for this tremendous blog. You shared some awesome ideas. Bravo! Praise God!

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  2. Sarah, I like your ideas, it seems to me that the Presbytery office does a great job of getting reports out to anyone who wants them with time to read them before the meeting, so why they need to be basicly re-read at the meeting makes no sense. Also one of my pet peeves with meetings is when it is obvious an issue does not need to be hashed out with everyone there, often it is something that should be taken care of one on one before or after the meeting. I think the booth idea would be great for this. One observation from this recent Presbytery meeting is that many of the older( regular? ) commissioners came to the pre-event or showed up early for social time/ connecting with others before the meeting started and a few of the younger folks showed up later I think not needing this extra fellowship time and knowing that the start of the meeting would be delayed because of this initial fellowship time. I saw this article today and think it flows with your ideas http://99u.com/tips/7220/How-To-Run-Your-Meetings-Like-Apple-and-Google. One addition I might add is utilizing the consent agenda idea, which gives support to the work of the committees and allows for items that someone feels should come before the full body to be pulled from the consent agenda and placed in the meeting agenda, or items that the body has faith in the work of the committee can simply be affirmed.

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    1. Thank you Scott.

      Obviously ours is a relational organization so some of the ideas in the article you highlighted would be antithetical to our goals, but your point is well taken. Perhaps more fellowship could take place if there was less meeting. I might have gone out with some of my friends afterwards if the meeting hadn't ended at 9:45pm.

      I like the idea of "utilizing the consent agenda idea, which gives support to the work of the committees and allows for items that someone feels should come before the full body to be pulled from the consent agenda and placed in the meeting agenda, or items that the body has faith in the work of the committee can simply be affirmed."

      I also like the idea of combining items that folks can agree on, almost like an omnibus motion, so that the issues which require debate can be given more time.

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    2. I totally agree with your assessment and love, love, love your ideas for change! As one who prepares well in advance of any meeting, it makes perfect sense to address concerns/questions at booths and get on with it instead of more re-hashing and re-reading. While I realize there are items that must come before the whole Presbtery for votes, the questions & discussion & additional information can certainly be done in advance and at the booths. P.S. I'm a 60-something and have little time to spend so want every minute to be valuable!

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  3. While I agree with you about committee reports (should be focused on action items and highlights of important info within a printed report) and the Presbyterian tendency to debate in order to make our voices heard...with all due respect, I think that the problem is less *how* the meeting is structured and more the *approach* to the meeting.

    Let me explain:
    My Presbytery meets 3 times a year, each time on a Saturday. These are "all day" events, starting at 9am with worship and ending no later than 3pm. Lunch is on-site and a great opportunity for that fellowship that we so crave and need. We also have a time of prayer after lunch and a time for sharing mission and programs from the local churches.
    Agendas are carefully crafted to allow enough time to debate what needs to be debated and to present information that needs to be presented.
    People stay focused on what is needed to be done, since we can't just push things off to the next meeting (which is four months away), and worship and prayer and fellowship frames everything into a healthy context...it's hard to get into a nasty debate with someone you just shared communion and lunch with.
    I know that all day on a Saturday is a large chunk of time, but because it is approached in this way, I *never* feel that my time has been wasted...and since it's only three times a year, it's easy to set aside the ability to give 3 days up out of 365/6.

    Also, I can't emphasize enough the importance of a candidate standing before the gathered body to present themselves and to be presented for ministry....First, it is the body who confirms the call that the individual has heard in their lives, that time is important for that. And Second...I'm having a hard time articulating this, but the one on one booth scenario is setting up a prime opportunity for the candidate to be harangued and berated by an individual or a group, that could press issues that are not allowed for debate or questioning. The gathered body tempers that and keeps that sort of thing under control.

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    1. This last point is critical.

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    2. Before people hear me arguing for something I didn't mean to, the structure I'm advocating does not eliminate the candidate coming before the entire body for examination. That would still be a critical part of the meeting. But what about the us-out-here them-up-there structure seems more conducive to a healthy exchange? There are very few 20 and 30 somethings that will enjoy sitting through a meeting where candidates have questions thrust upon them in a seemingly adversarial way as opposed to allowing the candidates to self identify the issues that arose during the reporting hour. Candidates would have an opportunity to think about their responses and provide a meaningful exchange in front of the gathered body. Questions could still be raised during the debate.

      In regards to your concern that some people might use the reporting hour to harangue a candidate, do people in your Presbytery often harangue and berate each other? If it doesn’t happen around the dinner table, why would it happen at the booth? Additionally, these folks are being brought to the floor by a committee. That committee should act as witness during the initial reporting hour.

      Another point that I think bears repeating is that by the time the last candidate made it to the floor at our meeting the other night, most of the commissioners had already come and gone from the meeting. The gathered body didn’t really get a chance to hear from him. I cannot pretend to know what goes on in other Presbyteries and I trust that your experience is the experience of others in your area. Perhaps you have a great deal of 20 and 30 year olds participating in your meetings, if that even matters. All I can say is that the meeting that I attended a week ago was unbalanced and I sensed that people were looking for another option.

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  4. Sarah - Thanks for your creative ideas! I'm challenged and excited by the possibilities!

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  5. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I am a early 30 something ordained pastor in the PCUSA and have to admit that I find it much easier NOT to go to Presbytery than to go. These ideas are such a breathe of fresh air.

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  6. Being a former Presbyterian, who served on both the Deacons board and the Session Board and having attended several Presbytery meetings, I know the pain of sitting through committee reports that many times I had no clue what they were about. I like your creative ideas to move Presbytery to something more interactive. Time is of the essence these days and it is better to get the information in a manner that doesn't lose them after ther first 5 minutes. Best wishes on the changes!

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  7. Outstanding! This is right on!

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  8. Very interesting. Look forward to talking to you about some of these ideas!

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